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Traveller-digest          Wednesday, 17 July 1996      Volume 1996 : Number 264

(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

         1. Other Milieus
         2. Re: 2300AD
         3. Re: Other Milieus
         4. Re: Traveller miniatures
         5. Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #226
         6. RE:Pop culture
         7. Re: Realism
         8. Re: Fighters in Space
         9. Speaking of QSDS 1.3...
        10. F-16 Engines
        11. Re: Realism
        12. Re: Culture and Realism
        13. Re: Realism
        14. Re: Culture and Realism
        15. Re: Ship design on the Web
        16. Re: Fighters in Space
        17. Re: Other Milieus
        18. Sales
        19. Orbital Tech

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ethan Henry <ehenry@mag1.magmacom.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 08:23:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Other Milieus

After re-reading the Solomani (CT) aliens
module last night I got to thinking...

The Nth Interstellar War(s) and the beginning
if the Rule of Man would make an _excellent_
game setting.

The players would be mostly Solomani, giving them an
easy frame of reference to play from, for
a start.

But then - I don't have the book right with me,
but to paraphrase "Lieutenants were given control
of whole worlds, officers who one might have 
commanded a light crusier were put in charge of
entire fleets..." Now that would be great!
The players represent a group of solomani officers
sent to take control of some Viliani world out in
the middle of nowhere. 

I think that most of these instant military governors
would have done next to nothing - again, the "history"
states that most of the Empire was still run by the
massive Viliani buraracy (sp?), which worked fine
until society collapsed and everything ground to a halt.
Anyways, this sort of position, combined with the
real lack of anything to do could open up a lot of
cool adventure possibilities.

Anyways, the Nth Interstellar war has given me some
thoughts on the Collapse, but that's for another post.

Ethan

------------------------------

From: Liam_McCauley@qsp.co.uk (Liam McCauley)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:44:42 +0200
Subject: Re: 2300AD

     Random (or should that be Mr./Ms. Encounter?),
     
     The following web pages might be useful to you:
     
     http://www.ktb.net/~jayadan/2300ad.htm
     http://members.aol.com/legames
     
     Cheers,
     Liam
     
     -- 
     Liam_McCauley@QSP.co.uk

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: 2300AD
Author:  Random Encounter <jonimv@evitech.fi> at internet
Date:    17/07/96 10:34


I just recently loaned a copy of 2300AD but it does not have near star 
list (or what ever it is called). It has a GM book, player's book and star 
map. So it is quite difficult to play the game without that list.
     
I'd like to know if some of you kind souls would e-mail me that list 
(excpesially if it is not too long to type) or a site that possibly has 
that information.
     
Thanks in advance...
     
     
     
*******************************
*Random Encounter             *
*******************************
*"One for all and more for me"*
*                             *
*******************************
     

------------------------------

From: Tom Ellis <tellis@telerama.lm.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:03:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Other Milieus

In the many games I have run I have ref'ed games druning the Nth
Intersellar wars as well as the Long Night.  There are *lots* of options
even within "canon" (what a horrid word, I think that's the last time I
will use it on this list)

If you *really* want to have fun (and work your ass off), do a completely
alternate campaign, it can be alot of fun.


_______________________________________________________
Tom Ellis
tellis@telerama.lm.com
http://www.lm.com/~tellis/

"No! Do, or do not.  There is not try." Yoda
_______________________________________________________ 


------------------------------

From: Rob Dean <robdean@access.digex.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:12:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Traveller miniatures

> Keep an eye out for Laserburn 15mm science fiction figures and vehicles.
> This was a British company, I think.  The workmanship and detail are very
> nice.  Laserburn was in production in the early 1980s.
Someone mentioned the Ral PArtha 15mm SF figures earlier--if I'm not mistaken
they were these Laserburn figures produced under license.

Rob Dean
robdean@access.digex.net


------------------------------

From: "Gerald S. Williams" <gsw@aloft.att.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:24:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #226

On Tuesday, July 16, derek stanley <dstanley@direct.ca> wrote:
> I don't think it could infect wire, as far as I know it can only infect 
> chips.

I'm glad you agree with me on that. My point was that one way to infect
new computers is to make things that *look* like wires (or more likely
connectors) which, when connected at a certain place in a computer,
infiltrate the computer and make it susceptible to an outside attack
(otherwise they work normally). People who think twice before putting a
new chip in their computer might not hesitate to connect a "wire".

You see, I never thought the Virus doomsday scenario was unbelievable,
as long as you require physical contact or a particular type of chip
on the target computer to spread the *silicon lifeform* itself (by
"physical contact" I mean touching; by "type of chip" I mean "Deyo
transponders" or "fully-adaptive silicon", not just "silicon" or
"gallium arsenide"). You also do not need to spread the lifeform to
take over computers (thus non-silicon computers may be vulnerable).
This is my "self-consistent" view of Virus.

I don't really want to debate the Virus issue any more. I have never
used and never intend to use Virus (or even the devastation of Hard
Times). For many, Virus was the last straw, after which they stopped
buying new Traveller products. For me, it came earlier than that.
Virus was a *good* thing, allowing GDW to rebuild a bright future
(though why they didn't just move the timeline forward is beyond me).
Right now, I'm waiting to see how T4 turns out. I *am* throwing in
the occassional "Keep it consistent!" and "Don't try to overexplain
things that don't exist!" type comments, though. A corollary to the
latter is: "If you can explain something using modern-day knowledge,
don't make up new laws of physics instead!"

- -O Gerald Williams / Bell Laboratories - PAI830 55E-224 O-
- -O gsw@lucent.com /   1247 South Cedar Crest Boulevard  O-
- -O (610)712-3370 /          Allentown, PA  18103        O-
- -O -------------/ "Innovations for Lucent Technologies" O-


------------------------------

From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 07:45:45 -0800
Subject: RE:Pop culture

On 17 Jul 96 at 11:47, ROWAN Iain spewed:

> >I con't believe no one has mentioned "Are You Being Served!"
> 
> I'm glad you have.  Here in the UK we like to regard this as the
> pinnacle of our cultural achievement, just pushing Benny Hill
> into second place.  Shakespeare only comes 58th on the official
> list as
>  a) it's written with funny words
> b) fair enough, there's lots of murders, but there aren't enough
> upper middle class detectives solving them
> c)His portrayal of female characters is ludicrously inadequate as
> none of them run around the garden in their underwear.
> 
> Still, you did give us Saved by the Bell.  Cheers, guys.
> 

Sorry for the bandwidth, but this 1 was hilarious Iain... I was 
ROFL...

Stu

 
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" -Isaac Asimov, from "Foundation"
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This tagline brought to you by Big Ed's Taco Emporium, conveniently located next to
Bob's Pet Shop.
Stuart L. Dollar           sdollar@goodnet.com    

------------------------------

From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 07:45:44 -0800
Subject: Re: Realism

On 17 Jul 96 at 6:50, Tom Ellis spewed:

> More to the point, what happens if we rev up an Orion class ship to its
> full .1c and SLAM it into some planet?
> 

>From the way things sound, we'd be slamming it into Mars...

Envision this scene if you will...of a stranded mission commander on 
Mars...

"Here I am, a Colonel in the Air Force, so what do I do.  I volunteer 
to fly this *&^%@# Mars lander, which basically has Hiroshima strapped to 
its back, and then I suffer catastrophic reentry...I should have 
listened to my momma, she always said I should have been a butcher..."

Stu
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" -Isaac Asimov, from "Foundation"
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This tagline brought to you by Big Ed's Taco Emporium, conveniently located next to
Bob's Pet Shop.
Stuart L. Dollar           sdollar@goodnet.com    

------------------------------

From: cyhiggin@usa.pipeline.com (Dragoness Eclectic)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:58:17 GMT
Subject: Re: Fighters in Space

On Jul 15, 1996 09:28:23, 'Bri <bri@teleport.com>' wrote: 
 
>> But fighters (aircraft) are *much* faster than capital ships. For that 
>> matter, PT boats are faster than capital ships! They trade speed for 
>> range, and agility for armor. 
 
>Does this need to be pointed out? Fighters travel in AIR, which is much 
>less drag friendly then water. 
>And rember, that's not true about alot of PT boats. Few PT boats can 
>break 30 knots travelled by humungo carriers and the ones that do are 
>likley hydrophoil or non-conventional hull and suited for brown water OPs 
>only. 
 
*snicker* That "30 knots" may be the "official" figure that's 
listed in _Jane's Fighting Ships_, but I've heard stories that 
indicate the real "top speed" is much, much faster than 30 knots 
for the big nuke carriers.  Remember, the Jane's figures are jiggered; 
governments release the numbers they want their *enemies* to know.. 
One of the pecularities of hydrodynamics is that the most "efficient" 
speed is higher for a longer hull than a shorter one.  "Hull speed" 
for the USS Nimitz is a *lot* higher than the hull speed of the 
PT-109. 
 
                         --Cynthia 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 
Alt.gothic.CR Master-at-Arms ---------- cyhiggin@usa.pipeline.com

------------------------------

From: cyhiggin@usa.pipeline.com (Dragoness Eclectic)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 15:00:30 GMT
Subject: Speaking of QSDS 1.3...

 
Wildstar, did you ever fix those broken HePLar tables from  
QSDS 1.3?  Is there a version 1.4 yet? 
 
              --Cynthia 
 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 
Alt.gothic.CR Master-at-Arms ---------- cyhiggin@usa.pipeline.com

------------------------------

From: lewis@chara.gsu.edu
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 96 11:09:57 -0400
Subject: F-16 Engines

>On a related point, has anyone ever tried to by F-16 engines; I'm sure
>you could do it easily, especially if you were using them for
>commercial purposes (a fighter-technology based superfast courier?)

My Dad is an accountant for Pratt & Whitney which makes the F100 engine
which powers the F-16.  I always told him that the company should offer
employee discounts.  :)
I'll ask him if private individuals could purchase an engine.  
Lewis 

------------------------------

From: Tom Ellis <tellis@telerama.lm.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 11:13:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Realism

To wax serious for a moment, the Orion designs were never intended for
interplanetary travel, but for interstellar, sublight travel.  They would
be illegal because international law prohibits the detonation of nuclear
devices in orbit or in space.

_______________________________________________________
Tom Ellis
tellis@telerama.lm.com
http://www.lm.com/~tellis/

"No! Do, or do not.  There is not try." Yoda
_______________________________________________________ 


------------------------------

From: cyhiggin@usa.pipeline.com (Dragoness Eclectic)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 15:16:29 GMT
Subject: Re: Culture and Realism

On Jul 16, 1996 23:09:25, '"Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>' wrote:

 
>On 16 Jul 96 at 20:50, Joe Walsh spewed: 
> 
>> I agree.  Heck, if they wanted to do a bit of research, they could pass 

>> off many Earth-cultures as alien, since most people know little about  
>> cultures other than their own. 
> 
>Actually, this has already been done.  I recall 1 of the Keith  
>brothers comparing the culture of the Vargr to the Dakota Sioux  
>nation... 
> 
>Suspect this one's already happened a time or two... 
  
And we won't mention the similarities between the Aslan and Shogunate 
Japan, nope, we won't.  Or the Solomani Confederation and the old 
Soviet Union... (the same power triad: Party, Military, Secret Police). 
I find that foriegn Earth cultures are more often thinly disguised 
and used in fantasy than in scifi, though.  Either that, or the  
scifi authors disguise the source of their cultures better. 
 
                         --Cynthia 
 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 
Alt.gothic.CR Master-at-Arms ---------- cyhiggin@usa.pipeline.com

------------------------------

From: "Gerald S. Williams" <gsw@aloft.att.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 11:47:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Realism

Tom Ellis <tellis@telerama.lm.com> wrote:
> > > For that matter, we have designs *now* for a huge .1C craft using
> > > nuclear detonation for thrust....no kidding.
> 
> More to the point, what happens if we rev up an Orion class ship to its
> full .1c and SLAM it into some planet?

Since it's a 10,000 ton ship, it would hit with the force of 1200
GIGATONS of TNT.

However, you are wrong about the ship being a 0.1c craft. I found
references to it on the web, and it was never intended to reach
those speeds. In fact, the upper limit to the velocity gain per
explosion was found to be about 30 m/s, which means it would take
at least 1,000,000 detonations to reach that speed (1,250,000 is
probably more realistic). It just can't carry the fuel.

It might be able to carry enough fuel to reach 0.01-0.02c, though
(gaining the energy of 10-40 gigatons of TNT!). It's a good thing
this is too big to be a strictly civilian venture (besides, with
10,000 tons of nuclear weapons, why bother accelerating the ship
just to create a big boom?).

- -O Gerald Williams / Bell Laboratories - PAI830 55E-224 O-
- -O gsw@lucent.com /   1247 South Cedar Crest Boulevard  O-
- -O (610)712-3370 /          Allentown, PA  18103        O-
- -O -------------/ "Innovations for Lucent Technologies" O-


------------------------------

From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:17:01 -0800
Subject: Re: Culture and Realism

On 17 Jul 96 at 15:16, Dragoness Eclectic spewed:

> >> off many Earth-cultures as alien, since most people know little about  
> >> cultures other than their own. 
> > 
> >Actually, this has already been done.  I recall 1 of the Keith  
> >brothers comparing the culture of the Vargr to the Dakota Sioux  
> >nation... 
> > 
> >Suspect this one's already happened a time or two... 
>   
> And we won't mention the similarities between the Aslan and Shogunate 
> Japan, nope, we won't.  Or the Solomani Confederation and the old 
> Soviet Union... (the same power triad: Party, Military, Secret Police). 
> I find that foriegn Earth cultures are more often thinly disguised 
> and used in fantasy than in scifi, though.  Either that, or the  
> scifi authors disguise the source of their cultures better. 

I think you're probably correct with the latter statement...  What I want to 
know is who they patterned the K'kree after???  ;-)

Stu
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" -Isaac Asimov, from "Foundation"
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This tagline brought to you by Big Ed's Taco Emporium, conveniently located next to
Bob's Pet Shop.
Stuart L. Dollar           sdollar@goodnet.com    

------------------------------

From: Jo Grant/DUB/Lotus <Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus.LOTUSINT@crd.lotus.com>
Date: 17 Jul 96 17:19:27 EDT
Subject: Re: Ship design on the Web

Liam_McCauley writes 

>After playing with Jo Grant's  spreadsheet, and seeing how nice that was,
  Thank you!

>it seems that it wouldn't  be too dificult (for someone else ;-)) to create a 
form
>for generating  T4 ships using the QSDS.
  I'm currently working on turning my spreadsheet into a C++ class. People can
then write all sorts of ship-generators based around it. I passed it on to
James Dempsey to see if a Java conversion was feasible.
  If anyone else wants to mess with the current half-baked class let me know...

     Jo

------------------------------

From: Larry Hadley <lhadley@knet.knet.flemingc.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 12:36:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Fighters in Space

On Wed, 17 Jul 1996, Dragoness Eclectic wrote:
> On Jul 15, 1996 09:28:23, 'Bri <bri@teleport.com>' wrote: 
> >> matter, PT boats are faster than capital ships! They trade speed for 
> >> range, and agility for armor. 
>  
> >And rember, that's not true about alot of PT boats. Few PT boats can 
> >break 30 knots travelled by humungo carriers and the ones that do are 
> >likley hydrophoil or non-conventional hull and suited for brown water OPs 
> >only. 
>  
> *snicker* That "30 knots" may be the "official" figure that's 
> listed in _Jane's Fighting Ships_, but I've heard stories that 
> indicate the real "top speed" is much, much faster than 30 knots 
> for the big nuke carriers.  Remember, the Jane's figures are jiggered; 
> governments release the numbers they want their *enemies* to know.. 
> One of the pecularities of hydrodynamics is that the most "efficient" 
> speed is higher for a longer hull than a shorter one.  "Hull speed" 
> for the USS Nimitz is a *lot* higher than the hull speed of the 
> PT-109. 

   AvLeak is a better source than Jane's. The only reason you see CVNs
cruising around at 30kts is because they have conventionally fueles
escorts. ;)

   And PT boats are only faster when they trun up the wick - which
shortens range tremendously. Even assuming PTs *are* faster, all the
CV has to do is turn around, pull the rods from the reactor and wait for
the PT to run out fo fuel chasing it.

- -- DLH "Warhammer"                           lhadley@knet.flemingc.on.ca
   Traveller stuff for sale/trade.
   http://www.knet.flemingc.on.ca/~lhadley/Profile.html

"...I do my job the best way I know. I'll keep on doing that. If somebody
gets killed, OK. Nobody lives forever, and I don't have any friends on the
other end of the muzzle"
  - Danny Pritchard



------------------------------

From: Tom Miller <scouse@inforamp.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 12:52:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Other Milieus

>After re-reading the Solomani (CT) aliens
>module last night I got to thinking...
>
>The Nth Interstellar War(s) and the beginning
>if the Rule of Man would make an _excellent_
>game setting.

If I remember correctly, a few months ago when I first e-mailed Marc Miller
asking whether or not the Shattered Imperium would be supported in T4 he
said yes, and also answered my other questions (Would there be an
INterstellar Wars era) with a resounding yes!

>But then - I don't have the book right with me,
>but to paraphrase "Lieutenants were given control
>of whole worlds, officers who one might have 
>commanded a light crusier were put in charge of
>entire fleets..." Now that would be great!
>The players represent a group of solomani officers
>sent to take control of some Viliani world out in
>the middle of nowhere. 

Or, players represent those Solomani scouts sent to explore the rest of the
IMperium, stumbling upon Vland, and investigating Viliani culture.

Players are Traders, and hired by the Confederation to bring Solomani goods
and people to worlds deep in the Viliani Empire.

Lastly, what if players were caught on the wrong side of the decision to
supersede Terra and the Confederation (brought about my some Admiral, name
escapes me), and had to work (albeit unsuccessfully) to bring him down.

Thanks,

Peter Miller

	----------     This Message is From Either...   ----------

Tom Miller * Liverpool List * Genealogy * http://www.inforamp.net/~scouse/	
Peter Miller * New Frontiers * RPG * PBeMs * Homepage down temporarily *

	----------      E-MAIL: scouse@inforamp.net     ----------


------------------------------

From: anwfh@orion.alaska.edu (William F. Hostman)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:50:59 -0800
Subject: Sales

>> The original reason for suggesting that Book2 and Book5 be used is this:
>> _High Guard_ sold 200,000 copies. _Megatraveller_ sold 20,000 copies. TNE
>> (including FF&S) sold 2,000 copies. Each rules set dropped an order of
>
>Where do these numbers come from? High Guard may very well have sold
>200,000 copies, but 20,000 is low for all MT products combined. The
>figure of 2000 for all TNE products combined is ludricrously low.
>
> Loren ("I know what was left in the warehouse when we shut down") Wiseman

I don't know about the absolutes above, but I do know that MegaTraveller,
sold less than 100 units in anchorage AK, TNE sold less than 30, and CT
Sold over 200 (I've met that many people who've bought it up here, courtesy
of conventions. CT still outsells MT or TNE up here. By units, I'm
referring simply to basic sets/rulebooks.

 BTW: I account for 3 copies of MT, and 2 of TNE, and 4 of CT (Basic,
Deluxe, Traveller Book, and spare Basic). All I need now is a copy of
Starter, and a few adventures...

William F. Hostman

Aramis@AsylumBBS.com



------------------------------

From: anwfh@orion.alaska.edu (William F. Hostman)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:50:53 -0800
Subject: Orbital Tech

Stu spewed forth:
>Obviously we are close on orbital habitats, but to make such things
>long-term, you have to have a breakthrough in gravitics that we're
>not even approaching.  The effects of long-term weightlessness are
>well documented...
>

And what about the "infamous" Hamster cage? Use cetrifugal force to
simulate gravity. Been done since TL5-6. Really simple. Can be scaled up
easily. Set it spinning in orbit, and any cylindrical; body provides lots
of wall space to utilize as flooring. make it squat enough, and wide
enough, and you get relatively low revs, too.

Another good suggestion, although not directly adaptable, that can be good
for tech: _Mobile Suit Gundam_. There is an english translation of the
novels. Lots of TL9 colonies and ships.

William F. Hostman

Aramis@AsylumBBS.com



------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #264
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